Dr. Cleopatra Abdou is an assistant professor of Social Work, Psychology, and Gerontology at University of Southern California. She specializes in the intersection of reproductive health, human flourishing, and how health is transmitted from one generation to the next. Through her website, she communicates with the non-academic world about her passion for women’s health and wellness and provides fertility, pregnancy, and Mommy Lifecycle consulting and programs to women and families nationally and internationally. Cleopatra is also a proud mom of three, one of whom was born just a few weeks before this interview took place on April 26, 2018.
Kimine: What do you think made you take the career that you have, especially service to women through your profession?
Cleopatra: I wasn’t always consciously aware of this, but it was like my path was given to me. I lost my mom when I was born. She died in childbirth, giving birth to my twin sister and me. Her passing was completely preventable and unnecessary. My mom lost her life because she was a woman of color, a new American, and she didn’t speak English. We didn’t have health insurance. It was in inner city Brooklyn (the rough Brooklyn of the 80s). My mom didn’t need to die, but she died because she had pregnancy complications that were addressed carelessly. Ultimately, my mom lost her life at 27 years old because her life wasn’t valued by our society.
It was so natural for me that, at very young age, I began paying careful attention to the state of women and their families everywhere I went. I became fascinated with the inner and outer world of moms and women who would one day become moms. I observed closely what is different about the ones who seem to be doing it from a place of ease instead of a place of struggle, what they need, and the strategies they use to figure things out. I just informally took on this role of supporting women and learning everything I needed to know about physical health–especially reproductive health–and mental health to do that.
Kimine: What is research (scholarly work) for you?
Cleopatra: For me, research was never intended to be an intellectual exercise or a means of bringing prestige to my own name or my career or anything else. Research was and is for the purpose of figuring out how to make things better in the world. I have a hearty consulting practice through which I continue to do that to this day. I have definitely paid consequences in my academic life in order to continue to do the work I feel so called to do out in the world. But it doesn’t matter. Because it’s what I have to do. It was always the goal of my research and my academic career to be of service to women in this country and throughout the world. Impact, access, and inclusion are core values of my work. So, for me, this is very much about equity and access. Every woman, every family needs support and to be informed with the very best evidence-based and also loving information out there.
Kimine: Do you think that your work is not separate from your passion for your healthy family life?
Cleopatra: Yes. Some people believe that you should compartmentalize your life in order to be most productive and your most healthy, happy self. I really believe in harmonizing your life. So, for me, the work I do in terms of my research and the application of my research through my consulting programs–In Bloom (conceiving program), Good Egg (egg freezing and fertility preservation program), Inner Circle (pregnancy program), and Flourished (program on preparing for making the most of your maternity leave and having a sane and successful transition back to work after baby)–is just an extension of my love and commitment that I live every day when I’m home with my family. It starts here, at my very core with my family, and radiates out into the world through these contributions that I work very hard to make in my life.
Harmonizing your life is critical. All of my life and my being work together. I think because they work together, my life just works more easily. I work super hard and take on huge responsibilities, but it doesn’t feel hard.
Kimine: Congratulations on your new family member’s arrival! Are you on leave now?
Cleopatra: Thank you! I am not on leave. I chose not to take leave at this time because I have specific goals that I want and need to accomplish this spring and throughout the summer for a large grant. So I am continuing to work on my grant activities and on manuscripts that I will submit this summer.
Kimine: What is your life like after delivering your third?
Cleopatra: It’s definitely an intense period having a newborn and being up all night with the baby waking up every hour or two and then still very much functioning during the day. But I have done that with all of my babies.
Kimine: How is your work life now?
Cleopatra: I work from my dedicated home office as much as humanly possible. Telecommuting or working offsite is hugely important for parents with young children. Especially living in a traffic-heavy city like Los Angeles, it makes all the difference in the world to be able to reduce time spent commuting so that I can actually be working more of the hours of the day. Also, with a newborn, it makes it so much easier to take a break and go to the next room to nurse my baby and to be working in the privacy of my home office so that I can pump as much as possible so that my husband and my nanny can do feedings while I am working. I’ve found, for me, working from home has made a huge difference in terms of my ability to be productive and to be a happy, healthy, present, attentive mom.
Kimine: Do you have any support system in your life?
Cleopatra: We have a nanny who is like a family to us. She is here a lot–at least 45 hours per week. She is really a second mother to my children. I know that some would feel ashamed of this. I don’t. What I feel is so incredibly grateful that I have this woman in my life who makes it possible for me to be and do everything that I want to be and do in the world and to give everything I want to give both to my own family and to the women, moms, and families with whom I work and my broader community. I feel so grateful that she is someone whom I trust so much that I am completely at ease and focused on what I’m doing while my children are with her. They are super happy and at ease when they are with her.
Kimine: Do you also recommend for other women to pay for help?
Cleopatra: Yes. I work with women who want to become moms or who already are moms. I always say that I highly recommend paying for help if you can. I think that help that comes for free on a regular and extended basis (e.g., from family) is much more complex in many ways. The exchanges and the boundaries become complicated. The whole point of childcare is to create a greater sense of ease and freedom in your life. It completely defeats the purpose if your childcare arrangement brings complexity or turmoil into your life. I feel super grateful that I am in the position where I can pay for help. Of course, my husband and I make choices to make that possible. We give our children an awesome nanny who is extremely happy because we treat and compensate her well. We don’t go on lavish vacations. But, to me, it’s totally worth it.
Kimine: Do you find any challenges in your harmonized life?
Cleopatra: I will say that the part that has challenged me the most, in terms of harmonizing with the rest of my life, is my academic career. It is not the actual work of academia so much. The work part (the grant-writing, the publishing, the science, the teaching) is challenging, but challenging in exciting ways. That part is totally doable if you’re not afraid of hard work, which I so am not. In truth, the part that has been seriously grueling for me personally–mentally, emotionally, and otherwise–is the cultural context of academia.
In Part II, Cleopatra discusses her challenges in academia as a woman of color in STEM.